Tuesday, August 08, 2006

15 or 90?...

Mr. Atos

From ABC News... FBI: Approach Missing Egyptians with Caution

The FBI has issued an urgent nationwide alert for 11 Egyptian students who entered the United States last week but failed to show up for their courses at Montana State University.

The FBI says the Egyptians arrived at John F. Kennedy Airport in New York on July 29 and disappeared. The advisory says the alert is nationwide but that there is specific concern the Egyptians may be on the Eastern Seaboard.According to the advisory the 11 missing Egyptians are:

1. Ibrahim, El Sayed Ahmed Elsayed; DOB OF 4/29/1986.

2. El Dessouki, Eslam Ibrahim Mohamed; DOB OF 02/21/1985.
3. El Bahnasawi, Alaa Abd El Fattah Ali; DOB OF 04/02/1986.
4. Abd Alla, Mohamed Ragab Mohamed; DOB OF 02/15/1984.
5. El Laket, Ahmed Refaat Saad El Moghazi; DOB OF 09/01/1986.
6. El Ela, Ahmed Mohamed Mohamed Abou; DOB OF 02/02/1985.
7. El Moghazy, Mohamed Ibrahim Elsayed; DOB OF 08/08/1986.
8. Abdou, Ebrahim Mabrouk Moustafa; DOB OF 02/25/1984.
9. El Gafary, Moustafa Wagdy Moustafa; DOB OF 07/01/1988.
10.Maray, Mohamed Saleh Ahmed; DOB OF 09/12/1985.
11.El Shenawy, Mohamed Ibrahim Fouaad; DOB OF 08/12/1988.

Link to the ABC Investigative Team's Homepage for additional information'

Free Republic has a thead.

Billings is a long way from New York, but nearly to the West Coast relatively speaking. Situated along I-90, its a straight line shot to Seattle. Given the time frame, they would already be there, planning what may come. Noting that this September is the 5th Anniversay of the 9/11 attacks and that the Space Needle was a previous target, 90 is a likely bet. Yet, with only minor diversions along the way, I-84 to Portland, 80 to Sacramento, and 15 to LA are logical destinations as well. As Clancy noted in Teeth of the Tiger, 10 men would be enough for 2 to 3 teams intent to do some very bad things. That is of course assuming, other Universities have been as diligent in verifying their registries as has MSU. In that case, there might be more advisories to come.

Let us not assume anything. Heed the FBI's words of caution, and report any suspicious characters of MUSLIM APPEARANCE AND DECENT AND THE NAME 'MUHAMMED, 'that you might note. The lives of dozen, or tens of thousands may well depend on your... disciminated profiling of strangers.


dueler88 said...

As some freepers are noting, perhaps we should be showing photos of all of these guys for the sake of *their* safety. A bunch of exchange students gone missing? The government would extend the courtesy to Japanese, Swedish, Senegalese, etc. students. Why not do the same for these Egyptians?

Well, because - perhaps correctly - these poor students, or anybody that looks like them, might find themselves in a world of hurt by some civilians or law enforcement somewhere. I say give them a few days of media saturation to make their presence known. *Then* broadcast photos.

Honestly, Atos, there are so many targets to choose from that it's simply mindboggling to consider. If I were a betting man, I'd say they're still in the NY area.

Mr.Atos said...

That is of course, the obvious location. Hence the reason I deliberately thought outside of 'the box' here. Consider that the 'plan' may be compromised after its initiation, as many have. The men on on their way, together or seperate in the direction they were needing to go would be afforded safe passage and time to plan, up until Billings and in the security of their story. Then the target/targets are a day away from their objective when they 'disappear.'

Of course they are likely still East. But, that is exactly why one might further West... or anyplace else.

Just in case.

louielouie said...

my money says CAIR & ACLU have got the lawsuits, on behalf of our egyptian friends, against MSU being finalized and will be presenting/announcing them shortly.

how do you get the cynic button on this thing to turn off...........

Anonymous said...

For arguments sake, what if there aren't any missing students? What if these men never existed? Why haven't the news agencies sought out info from their concerned family and friends from WTF they are from?


Mr.Atos said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mr.Atos said...

And what if turpentine is really food? I suggest you try it for a week and see.

So far three of the nonexistent 'students' have been apprehended... no where near Bozeman.

Bottom's up!

Anonymous said...

Where are their pictures?
Go to the fbi.gov amd homeland security.gov website and try to find the pictures that have been referenced by other bloggers. They aren't there.
The school they were to attend should have thier applications with pictures right? Someone should have thier pictures. For thier (and our) safety we should see all of their faces. IN other words........

Trust, but verify.
-- Ronald Reagan

Turpentine as food?
Not until the party leaders or government tell us it is.
Then I suppose it will be swallowed like so many other lies.


Mr.Atos said...

Oh! Yes I see...

"No its isn't!"
"Yes it is!"

And I guessing where the planes were concerned on September 11th, in the totality of your brilliant playground assessment, your analysis will yield...

"No there weren't... No they didn't!"

Verification requires trust, at least with respect to knowledge, being that one can not possibly have experienced everything first hand. But, then I suspect you don't really appreciate Reagan's point, beyond the recycled quote... which I would guess you never heard in person.

As for the continuation of your playground analysis, "No...I won't." Discourse requires trust in the rationality of your conferee. And from what I've read so far, it simply cannot be verified.

Gulp, dont sip.

Anonymous said...

Oh, no no.
My reply is yes there were and yes they certainly did.

And, for your guess, no, actually I did.

Verification done properly requires some degree of scepticism. Where
scepticism is the methodology based on an assumption of doubt with the aim of acquiring approximate or relative certainty. It does not require an opposing viewpoint, nor should verification be sought in sources one knows will support their hoped or favorable conclussion.

My "playground analysis"
was to simply ask for proof.
I did go to the .gov sites and I did look for the info and it was not there.
What investigative organization issues a missing persons alert without the most complete description available?

Here are a few more quotes I never heard from men I never met.... except through their words which I hope the manifestation of their idea(l)s.

Do not trust all men, but trust men of worth; the former course is silly, the latter a mark of prudence.
- Democritus

You can't shake hands with a clenched fist - by Indira Gandhi

The next round is on you!


dueler88 said...


How about this -

the FBI is not posting their photos, not because they don't exist, but because they know that it will likely cause otherwise normal Americans to start looking at the ay-rabs around them with heightened suspicion. they all look the same, right? (kidding here, in case it's not clear) do we want that? do arab-americans want that? none of us are anxious to see arabs assaulted and/or detained at random or mosques burned to the ground. until more intelligence regarding this situation is gathered and verified, definitive public-based action cannot be taken.

what you imply is that there is some kind of effort by the bush administration to use fear as a lever on power over you and me. frankly, i don't need anybody to scare me any more than i already am - and i've felt this way for at least 20 years. the handwriting was on the wall since at least 1979 regarding the rise of militant islam. they've had the motivation for a long time - now they have real opportunities to strike against the great satan.

is it possible that these egyptian students are a total fabrication? yes. is it likely? no. understand that the most significant operations in the war against militant islam don't make it to the papers - either because the people doing them don't want them there for security reasons, or the people writing the papers don't want them there for political reasons.

please consider the situation from both the u.s. government's perspective AND the militant islamist's perspective. i think you'll find that there are ALL KINDS of horrifying things that can happen - like some crazy people deciding to use loaded airliners as cruise missiles. or some frustrated american muslim sniping people with an AR-15 through a hole in the trunk of his car. or some young egyptian "students" unleashing some sarin gas or smallpox on the NY subway. or those same young egyptian guys cutting loose with AK-47's in the mall of america. our greatest strength - our freedom - has become our greatest vulnerability.

the way out of this maze is not easy. what i am certain of, however, is that tinfoil hats are ineffective armor against 7.62mm bullets, shrapnel, nerve agents and fissile plutonium.

Mr.Atos said...

You walk headlong into my point, Anon, and still dont get the idea... even as Democritus pummels you with it. Trust, by definition, does not require verification nor scepticism. It is established by a common recognition of shared values yielding a reflexive defintion of worth and respect, such that no failure of judgment would render it severed. Reagan, I submit was playing on words at the expense of the Soviets and their cadre of useful Western idiots.

Skepticism, doubt, distrust is your first reaction in crisis among the people you share culture and allegiance. What worth are you to us... your opinions, judgements, or your very existence?


Bottle gone... your conclusions are pending. Is it food or poison you consume? Don't argue with me about it, just wait and see. Meantime ask yourself, who do YOU trust, and why?

I know the answer to both questions.

Anonymous said...

O.K., O.K., I'll take the bait.
Who do I trust and why? I am curious to your answer.

I'll take mine over ice,


Mr.Atos said...

No bait...

I know the answer to both questions with respect to myself. It was merely an invitation for introspection.